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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Halcyon Harvey
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2013.12.12 23:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
I find it shocking that walking in stations hasn't been implemented yet.
CCP have such a sterling history of following through on things... |
Halcyon Harvey
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 16:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
Going back a few pages...
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Hence why we are discussing this (what, 3rd?) attempt by a company to produce a 40k MMO that will not manage to enrage some portion or other of the firmly established and intrenched player and fanbase of that IP.
Warhammer mmos didn't, can't, and will never work.
Generic WoW-format mmos built on the foundations of strategic, turned-based, army vs army tabletop games which were appealing because they were strategic, turned-based, army vs army tabletop games...
Yeah, no, that seems totally reasonable. Because intellectual property in infinitely malleable, right?
PS - Yes, I am aware WoW's lore is ripped off from Warhammer because they couldn't secure the rights to use any of material years and years ago, but you simply can't keep doing it over and over and expecting success. |
Halcyon Harvey
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 19:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Just out of curiosity...
In what way do proponents of walking around in a game about spaceships feel WiS has the potential to benefit everyone's experience? I mean, yes, of course, standing around watching someone try to figure out how to play Zero-G Plinko would be vastly amusing, but does direct avataric interaction in any way enhance what EVE effectively is - a game based on social interaction based on the current (and historical) format of the game?
I remember when all this was first announced I was in some channel on some TS or some such ****, and the general sentiment at the time was negative. Negative because nothing good could possibly come from further (purely cosmetic) elements such as teabagging someone's character or standing around awkwardly in a circle instead of spinning ships.
Forsaken (An EVE Thing) |
Halcyon Harvey
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 19:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:Travel to place A, perform action B, acquire resource C, compete/collaborate with players D-Z. Doesn't matter whether you do that wearing your Tengu with the HAM launchers or wearing your shield belt with a gauss pistol, on an abstract level the activity is essentially identical and all that's changed is how that activity is thematically portrayed.
Absolutely... but here's the thing...
What you are describing with the pistol and the heists and all that... that sounds like a different game. Just being honest. And in the long and glorious history of games, I have never once been particularly impressed by efforts to shoehorn new formats into older ones. It simply doesn't work. To me, what makes EVE a truly sustainable MMO is that there has been a continuous development of the fundamental core mechanics and visual format. EVE with Star Wars: The Old Republic taped to its back doesn't appeal to me at all. I play EVE, as I always have, because it's EVE, not because it's a conventional MMO trying to be like everyone else. Investing time and money into doing something other than what you're best at, frankly, has always proved to be a recipe for disaster and, ultimately, failure.
Forsaken (An EVE Thing) |
Halcyon Harvey
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 20:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Mittani
People talk about this man all the time.
Is he some kind of skinny Remedial?
Acceptable answers are "Yes" and "Ham".
Forsaken (An EVE Thing) |
Halcyon Harvey
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 20:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ambassador Crane wrote:Eve HoldGÇÖEm
There was a time when EVE consisted of 2 things for me...
1) EOH
2) Laughing with drunks on TS while we spun ships
Oddly enough, those memories are better and brighter than most ops I've been on...
Forsaken (An EVE Thing) |
Halcyon Harvey
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 20:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
This whole "combat in stations" thing...
I see its mechanics being abused to cause epic amounts of grief. I see it becoming a function of trolling. I see it not being implemented the way anyone imagines it being implemented. I see tears... and revisions... and ultimately, I see absolutely no reason to engage in any of it.
Christ, why would I ever leave my CQ? What, so that a bunch of mouthbreathers in station can pop me and ROFLROFLROFL all over my rotting corpse because they don't give two turtle ****s about my "adventurous spirit"?
Forsaken (An EVE Thing) |
Halcyon Harvey
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 21:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Sounds pretty Eve like to me. Replace avatar with ship in your post and youll see.
Yes, but that would make sense.
It would make sense for my avatar (lol) to be blown up and to be metaphorically teabagged in KB comments...
Why the **** would I want to do the same thing only with actual teabagging?
Forsaken (An EVE Thing) |
Halcyon Harvey
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 21:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
Anslo wrote:ruining a war plan and exposing an alliances motives. (too soon?)
Isn't this already widespread behavior?
And how would you "sabotage" a freighter? Would WiS enable us to interact with the docked ships of other players? Some kind of "**** 'em over" mini game with a Skyrimesque lockpicking interface? Why not just steal it?
The problems are with the details. What exactly do people think WiS can add to the game if not, as pointed out, ground combat? I'll tell you... meaningless minigames. That's about it. Timesinks. Daywasters. Things that have nothing to do with spaceships or flying them? Picture corp members sitting around on couches, burping, comparing Pokemon collections.
Forsaken (An EVE Thing) |
Halcyon Harvey
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 22:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:So... wait, your entire objection to something that would form the foundation for a broad raft of new content is that you might suffer a minor indignity?
There have been some pretty crappy arguments in this thread so far dude, but yours wins the grand prize.
No, my argument is entirely solid. You just aren't getting it.
Spaceship game is spaceship game. The format, and everything that has been poured into it, serve as increasingly complex cornerstones for a game... about spaceships. Why people so desperately want to saunter around on foot engaging in cover combat... or using WiS to circumvent every last bastion of safety... or sitting around playing ISK poker... or just generally ****ing around in other ways is entirely beyond me.
You want FPS? There are games for that.
You want stealth? There are games for that.
You want to play poker? There are sites for that.
You want to play spaceships? There's EVE for that.
Simply put, I want EVE to keep developing in organic and interesting ways... as EVE. A game. About spaceships.
It's not that I think WiS supporters are idiots. I just don't see how "expanding" EVE by throwing resources at adding plodding around doing mundane things (or things that are done much better in other places) is a good thing. And I maintain that, when implemented, it will in now way look and work the way your fertile imagination has worked it up to be.
You will be disappointed. We will all be disappointed. It will not have these wonderful dynamic things you guys are talking about, and even if it has a few of them, they will be poorly designed and ultimately useless.
Forsaken (An EVE Thing) |
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Halcyon Harvey
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 22:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:EVE is not. A game. About spaceships.
And this is why you fail.
I'm still interested to hear a response to the starkly realistic proposition that what you are hoping for is a fantasy. What WiS proponents want is another game. This is where we are in disagreement.
You think that EVE is this majestic thing that can be anything it wants to be.
On the other hand, I know that we never got planetary flight. We got a botched FPS sister game that has balance problems so vast and appeals to EVE players so minimally that it can effectively all but be described as a monumental flop. WoD didn't even WoD, and what WiS would end up being would be a shoehorned collection of minigames and awkward, mostly limp combat options... if any such options were implemented at all.
It is a remarkably obvious waste of time, money and human resources.
Forsaken (An EVE Thing) |
Halcyon Harvey
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 23:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:It hasn't helped that a great deal of WiS advocacy talked in great length about how weirdly excited they were at the idea of things like 'setting up a bar in a station somewhere'. Because, you know, if I was an immortal posthuman able to fly a mile-long spaceship and trigger barrages of artillery shells the size of a family car by plugging the controls directly into my brain, the thing I'd really be looking forward to doing would be pulling pints and cleaning up vomit in the toilets down at the King's Arms on a Friday night.
I'm still a little teary-eyed. Thanks for that. Couldn't have said it better.
WiS is such a pointless thing. That's what I can't get over.
How about implementing that long abandoned planetary flight thing to properly compliment DUST? What about increasing what we can do with planets, thus making them a truly viable player focus? Why not new exploration options to compliment what was ultimately a very good decision to expand EVE vertically by adding WH space? New ships. New environments. New things to do. New places to explore... and conquer.
Based on what Scatim just said (because he's right) you're not a cultural peon. Nor are you Han Solo. You are a pod pilot in command of a massive crew. Why are you ****ing around on foot shoving bananas up other pilot's tailpipes?
Forsaken (An EVE Thing) |
Halcyon Harvey
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2013.12.13 23:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:Halcyon Harvey wrote:You think that EVE is this majestic thing that can be anything it wants to be. Because it is.
I applaud your idealism.
I prefer realism though. It has undoubtedly served me better.
What you want is not possible here.
And it has been done before. Over there.
Forsaken (An EVE Thing) |
Halcyon Harvey
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 23:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:Either without the other will get you nowhere. Idealism without realism is naivety - realism without idealism is cynicism.
I like to think what I'm proposing is both idealistic and realistic.
But that's the problem.
It's not.
I'm sure you're aware of how much of a mess EVE's current code is. I'm also sure that you are aware that the reason we log in each day is to do comparatively vast and amazing things amongst the stars. I don't want CCP to waste time and money allowing me to crawl around on the dirty ground of some station looking for my insanely expensive monocle that just popped off.
This game does have incredible potential, but I want the universe I fly around in to become more complex and interesting and dynamic. And anything that allowed me to spend my time crouched behind some bulkhead while my enemies plink away at me with their pocket lazorz would never be anything close to what most of us would deem to be fun or acceptable.
WiS is thinking small. EVE is all about thinking big.
Forsaken (An EVE Thing) |
Halcyon Harvey
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 23:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:You really haven't read a thing I've written, have you? I'm talking in terms EoF being HUGE. I'm talking in terms of EoF doubling the size of the sandbox or more.
How is that not "thinking big" enough for you?
That's the thing, Stitcher. You think like I used to 10 years ago when I couldn't understand why nothing happened the way I envisioned it... the way I wanted it to be... to appeal to everyone I wanted it to appeal to. The best things EVE has ever done have been doable, passable things that enhance what it already is. And even then, there have been major problems and setbacks and backlashes and all that nonsense.
But people's time is limited. Technology is limited. Funds are limited. And when you think of everything that would have to go into WiS to make it everything you want it to be, why would you even undock ever again? EVE would become two games - a game for station dwellers, and a game for pilots. If everything you wanted was actually included in WiS, you wouldn't need EVE at all! You'd be spending hours and hours just having adventures... in stations.
And again, the reason we don't have it, is because it's very very difficult to do. And frankly, I don't even think it's worth it. Put that time and money into making the things that happen in space better. Give us more things to do. In space. With our massive spaceships. It all boils down to a simple disagreement over what makes EVE "better".
I don't think WiS makes it better. I think it's pointless.
Forsaken (An EVE Thing) |
Halcyon Harvey
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 01:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:Halcyon Harvey wrote:Bitter vet stuff. Serious urge to tell you to post with you main... Kind of just did... I think.
No, this is my main.
I only recently started playing EVE, but I have this amazing ability to deliver a realistic and well-informed presentation of a false "bitter vet" perspective based on the decade worth of vicarious experience that I absorbed in less than a week.
Grow up.
You can chalk my views up to me being a burned out old schooler who no longer takes any of this particularly seriously, which is partly true, but you could also accept that fact that I'm actually trying to convey an important message here. That message is simple; EVE is good at being EVE. It keeps may of us coming back again and again, even after years of absence. However, it is idealistic and naive indeed to say the least that features like WiS will ever be implemented in such a way that the extremes of what we envision it to be will actually be contained therein. And furthermore, because it will be a disappointment, it would be best if EVE continued to develop its current interactive platform.
Now how about rather than attempting to call me out in an impotent fashion, you actually contribute something?
Forsaken (An EVE Thing) |
Halcyon Harvey
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 01:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:Well, speaking as an old schooler who's never burned out even once... I find your lack of enthusiasm upsetting.
It would interest me to know why you feel a version of walking in stations that was thematically, mechanically and content-wise pure EVE and which contributed to both the size and available content of the sandbox would not enrich the game, however.
Setting aside any doubts about its feasibility - if CCP managed to make EoF in a way that completely justified and even exceeded my enthusiasm, and that people didn't abandon the spaceship side of the game in favour of it... what possible objection could you have?
None whatsoever.
Seriously. None. If I walked in tomorrow and it was all done and fully implemented and super-detailed and worth doing from time to time myself, I wouldn't question it. But we're talking about an improbable eventuality, and the further pursuit of that improbable eventuality will, in my estimation, result in lameness if it is ever actually introduced. Therefore, I find it to be a huge waste of time and money at this point in actual time that is happening right now, not some fictional fantasy land where we all get to live out our dream of leaving the wide open, dangerous, beautiful and endless depths of space so that we can pretend to be Mos Eisley patrons.
It's only my opinion, but this game could do with even deeper attention to cosmic environments, more space that might even have to be charted and eventually controlled exclusively by players, and new and interesting ship types that revolutionize fleets. That requires focus. WiS is a diversion from that, and since I have no faith in CCP's ability to deliver anything more than a neat little set of meaningless timesinks, I have no desire to back the whole concept.
So there's our resolution. We agree to disagree. I couldn't possibly explain it in more detail.
Forsaken (An EVE Thing) |
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